Parents Guild Blog - Latest Comments

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:27:05 -0000

You know, Mezasd. I agree with you. No sales tax, package arrives within a couple of days, who am I to complain? The question is, how is that fair? If you're anti-sales-tax, why not be anti-tax for Target & Walmart?

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Mezasd — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 01:24:49 -0000

You know, ive been a customer of amazon for 7 years, best thing bout it? No sales tax. If i went to buy something thru your link, and i had to pay sales tax, then i wouldnt buy it from you anyway. Amazon did the right thing. This was a power move by target, walmart, etc to eliminate the competition and gov. Brown probably took a bribe to make this happen. So your little letter needs to go to sacramento not amazon

Re: Further thoughts on Jeff Bezos vs State of CA

Michael Klein — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:12:48 -0000

Agree completely.
I think as mentioned in the previous set of comments, the one thing you would need to do is have one set of sales tax rules for, say, internet transactions to keep smaller companies from getting buried by the hundreds of sales tax jurisdictions in the U.S. each with its own specific rules and rates.

However as internet transactions are not subject to sales tax as is, would any state object to, say, a flat 5% sales tax on all internet purchases by customers in their state? I know this gets into the whole morass of federal vs. state sovereignty issues, but on a more basic level, think it's the most fair way to level the playing field, reign in companies getting a free ride (like Amazon) and closing a loophole that's keeping states from getting their fair share of revenue.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Nerdfun — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:11:07 -0000

Makes for a more clever and attention-grabbing headline the way you have it now, though.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Sailfish — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 18:06:57 -0000

I think your "Ain't my job" reply (consumers job to pay sales taxes) is a bit of a dodge, personally. After all, the thrust of your argument is that Californians benefit from paying said taxes and so your decision to not donate the loss of sales tax revenue from your link revenue seems a little self-serving. In effect, "Thank you Amazon for this previous 'sales tax'-free revenue stream but now that it's gone, by golly, you really should willingly be putting yourself in an uncompetitive advantage by charging the consumers for them."

You are right, taxes are not donations, they're confiscatory. However, you are making the case that Amazon consumers should essentially "donate" them, are you not? I guess my thought is that you would stand on firmer moral ground if you would have voluntarily cancelled your Amazon affiliation or have decided to "donate" a portion of your, apparent, ill-gotten revenue just as you are expecting Californian consumers to do.

Anyway, Amazon is on record for supporting a federal solution to this problem since that is where it should and, Constitutionally, must come from, more at http://buswk.co/kwRsy6

[excerpt]
Surprisingly, Jeffrey P. Bezos, Amazon's founder and chief executive officer, recently told Consumer Reports that he supports federal legislation that rationalizes the patchwork of 30,000 state and local sales-tax jurisdictions around the country, each with its own rules and administrative quirks.
[/excerpt]

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Sara — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:46:49 -0000

hear hear.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:40:47 -0000

Fair point, feel free to consider it such. It may be that we're just in the crossfire.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:34:00 -0000

Surprisingly, we did not. Typically, it's the consumer who pays sales tax at the point of purchase, when the vendor typically asks for it. Parents Guild is neither the vendor nor the consumer in a transaction on Amazon.

I don't think of taxes as donations, I think of taxes as shared effort to offset the tragedy of the commons - i.e. if we need consumers to buy things, and vendors to sell things, then we at some point decided it was desirable to allot some %age on top of that transaction to pay for the shared services that allow consumers and vendors to buy, sell and live. (Presumably we decided it would be expedient to not rely on the spontaneous charity of 3rd parties, as desirous as they might be to use those shared services.)

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Sailfish — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 17:19:43 -0000

Andrea, so, did Parents Guild donate, say 8.25% of your link revenue back to the state of California to account for their loss of sales tax revenue? If not, why not?

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Anon — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:58:55 -0000

I'm glad Amazon is doing this. That's because I work at a small company that sells things online, and I don't want to deal with the nightmare it would be to have to collect and report tax nationwide. Do you know how many different sales taxes there are? In a given state, the rate varies depending on county, city, and sometimes even by smaller units. There are at least 10000 different tax regions that you have to keep track of, and the boundaries and rates change frequently.

The boundaries of the tax districts do not always line up with the boundaries of zip codes (although you can play it safe and just charge the highest tax rate that is applicable somewhere in that zip code).

Once you figure out what to collect for a given customer, you aren't done. You have to them pay the tax to the state, and give them sufficient data so they can figure out how to apportion it among all those various tax districts of theirs. Of course each state will have its own formats it wants the data in.

Amazon could deal with this. They are big enough and profitable enough that they could devote to this the several people it would take. Smaller companies would be screwed.

The only way to make national collection feasible is for states to simplify things, so that there is at most one rate per zip code (ideally one rate per state for out of state sales), and for there to be uniform standards on reporting and data formats. The best way to handle this would be for each merchant to pay the tax to his own states, and have the states settle among themselves. That way, a given merchant ONLY deal with the tax authorities in his state, reporting his out of state sales on the same forms he uses to report his instate sales.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Ben Nesvig — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:42:33 -0000

Should be an open letter to Jerry Brown.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

andy magoon — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:12:31 -0000

The fact is that states don't have a right to tax somebody outside of their state lines. What some states are doing is really not legitimate; they don't have any authority over Amazon, and so they're trying to shoehorn some way to exert authority they shouldn't have. Blame the states. Amazon is simply protecting their business and their rights.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:01:41 -0000

thanks!

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

runningcode — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:35:29 -0000

Amazon doesn't mind paying sales tax. They do mind that state legislatures are violating the constitution with laws pushed by big box retailers.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:34:28 -0000

farah2 - great point. Amazon's in a position to push for solving this problem the right way. The way that involves them competing on an even playing field with local retailers. The way that mandates states work together or the feds step in. Not the way that drives small businesses who have been sending traffic their way out of business.

(updated) Here's an even better reply: http://news.ycombinator.com/it...

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:26:14 -0000

You're right in theory but we are (I mean, *were*) not making enough money from affiliate links to consider this. It's a major barrier to entry to require an LLC before testing different revenue scenarios.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

farah2 — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:13:02 -0000

Andrea - I have a question for you. You are a small company, and if you were selling online, do you think it would be fair if you started getting calls from the tax collectors in Florida, and Hawaii , and Maine, and the other 47 states saying, Hey, someone from our state bought something from your online shop in California, now you need to register in our state, and send us a quarterly tax check? That would be a terrible burden on thousands of small businesses! It is easy to look at amazon and say they are big, they can handle it, and forget the rest of us that can get swept into the mess.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

AffiliateGuy — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:58:22 -0000

While it's a pain, you can incorporate an LLC in another state to run your affiliate sales though. That's what other CA affiliates are doing.

If you depend on the affiliate income, this adds some complexity, but keeps you in business.

It costs a couple hundred dollars to setup then an optional maintenance fee. Google for an incorporator service, there are hundreds.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Pete — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:50:26 -0000

"a couple of dollars of lost profit?" how low is your sales tax. more like millions/billions of lost profit. If this is petty on Amazon's part, why is it not petty on California's part? They could have written the law such that affiliates don't count, especially after seeing how Amazon reacted in all the other states that did the exact same thing.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Jeff — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:49:45 -0000

Dear Andrea,

Thanks for your letter dated July 13th.

I understand the pain our decision to rescind our Affiliates programme in California has caused you and I hope you don't think the decision to sever so many mutually-lucrative affiliate relationships was taken lightly.

The truth is these are the first shots in what will become a protracted war to tax US internet commerce at the state level.

Allied against us are the physical retailers who must compete against us while paying the local sales tax and the state governments who've looked uncomfortably on a growing volume of consumer transactions slip through their taxable net, in budget-conscious times.

On our side, our fellow internet retailers and legions of affiliates struggle to influence state-level politics to prevent US internet commerce being impeded with the cost and bureaucracy of state taxes.

So I appeal to you: ask not what Amazon can do for you, but what you can do for this process.

Yours,
Fake Jeff

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

ParentsGuild — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:15:31 -0000

According to IndieBound.org "when you shop at an independently-owned business, your entire community benefits:
- Spend $100 at a local and $68 of that stays in your community. Spend the same $100 at a national chain, and your community only sees $43."

And spend $100 at Amazon... ???

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

plukevdh — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 01:57:37 -0000

Well said.

Re: Amazon, how could you dump us? An open letter to Jeff Bezos

Rich — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 01:50:42 -0000

Here is a better question, How is Lab 126 not a physical nexus for CA Sales tax? I think that Amazon is pulling a fast one.

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/...

Re: Contact Us

Heidichun — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:19:34 -0000

I posted a story about Parents Guild on my blog, ILoveMV.org Please check it and a let me know what you think, Heidi
http://ilovemv.org/family/pare...

Re: Finally!

Samantha — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:53:33 -0000

Looks great! Very web 2.0 :)